"Dedicated To The Winners & The Losers..." - Raekwon


Tuesday, August 12, 2008

Do We Really Need A Blueprint 3?: A Prayer For Kanye West


"If these two show up dressed like this to record, I'm gonna be pissed..."

It’s very rare feat indeed when the third installment in a series is not the proverbial “worst thing ever”. Plenty of very successful movie franchises have spectacularly and cataclysmically failed when it comes to making a third movie in a series. Lucas gave us Ewoks; Coppolla decided to scar us for life by giving his daughter a chance to “act”; “Terminator 3” decided to jettison Cameron (so he could inexplicably make “Aquaman”) and show the Governator’s naked 50 year old ass; and the less that is said about “Spider-man 3”, Tobey Maguire’s emo haircut and Topher fuckin’ Grace as Venom the better. The third part of a trilogy nearly ALWAYS sucks. All of this begs the question: Why the hell is Jay-Z giving us “the Blueprint 3”?

The last time we left the “Blueprint” series, Jay-Z made one of the worst double albums in the history of rap music. “The Blueprint 2: The Curse & The Abortion” is simply atrocious. Critics like to shit on “Kingdom Come” (and shit on all you want. That album’s even worse.) for Jay-Z attempting to make an easy-listening adult-contemporary rap album (when all we wanted was mindless odes to money and video models) but the “Blueprint 2” is just as egregious. "Blueprint 2" was filled with shitty half-assed guest features, beats in the same oeuvre as many boring Nas-esque snoozers (Yeah, haters. Jay-Z can be as guilty of that shit, too) and the album for the most part eschewed the chipmunk soul of the original for the mediocre pop hackery of the Neptunes and the corpse formerly known as Timbaland. The album is even more offensive considering it’s predecessor, “The Blueprint”, is one of the most beloved and influential albums of the decade (really only bowing possibly to “Supreme Clientele” and maybe “The College Dropout) and helped pave the way for the future mega-success of producers like Kanye West and Just Blaze. “The Blueprint 2” despite some obviously confused champions was mostly forgotten and outside of maybe 5 tracks is a completely worthless mess. Needless to say, it sold like hotcakes, surpassing the sales of it’s infinitely better superior and proving once again that the American public cannot be trusted to buy quality music. (I will now proceed to light myself on fire like I’m a Tibetan Monk or Bill Simmons.)


Last week, it was announced during the final legs of Kanye West’s "Glow In The Dark Tour" that Jay-Z was planning to release his final Def Jam album, titled “the Blueprint 3”, and he was enlisting the help of Mr. West to produce the vast majority of the album. This caused a near riot on the part of the hip hop media who are utterly obsessed with the transcendent glories of Shawn Corey’s testicles (XXL, I’m looking at you! And don’t think I’m not watching you, Eskay!). This seems to happen every time that Jay-Z deigns to come off his mountain after hanging out with Chris and Gwyneth to bless us commoners with a couple of his half-assed freestyles. Jay-Z has become a cultural icon the likes black music has not seen since Michael Jackson rocked a fedora and a white glove so the media has become heavily infested in pretending Jay-Z’s better than say...the Beatles but I digress. I, of course, being a paragon of reason, flawless taste and humility was instantly skeptical. Ever since Jay-Z stopped giving a shit about music in the summer of 2005, I have approached each Jay-Z project with a growing sense of apprehension. After Jay-Z gave the world the bloody partial birth abortion known as “Kingdom Come” (and the mainstream media still proceeded to lightly fellate his left ball as if the man had just released “Give It 2 Me”), I became downright hostile and an open hater of any mention that Jay-Z was the greatest rapper alive. Last year’s surprisingly good album, “American Gangster”, helped temporarily alleviate my distaste for the notion of Jay-Z’s alleged superiority but after almost a year of half-assed guest appearances and generally Coldplayian fuckery, I’m back to my traditional status of unabashed and glorious hater. I’m definitely expecting the worse especially after hearing the first single off the album, “Jockin’ Jay-Z,” today.


“Jockin’ Jay-Z” is a song that suspiciously sounds as if wants to be on this year’s three-quel album du jour, “Tha Carter 3”. The production built around a Run-DMC sample sounds as if it’s a more Dwayne Cartered-up version of Ghostface’s equally mediocre single for “The Big Doe Rehab”, “We Celebrate”, what with it’s wailing faux-wah wah guitars grinding over the beat and it’s old school “I Ain’t No Joke” drums snapping meekly in the background. It sounds nothing like what made the original “Blueprint” such a seminal piece of music. It doesn’t really sound like Kanye West, either. It sounds as if Kanye is either doing a mediocre MF Doom impression or was purposely trying to re-create the faux-weirdo production that has everybody up in a tizzy about “Tha Carter 3”. Either way, I want some chipmunk soul and I want it now. Jay-Z’s rhymes sounds as if he’s aping Weezy. He employs a flow that at times suspiciously sounds as if he’s biting the Idiot Savant Wonder going as far as “bigging up his brother” by cribbing some of Lil’ Wayne’s lines from the terrible “Mrs. Officer” from “Tha Carter 3.” Lyrically, it’s pretty innocuous “I’m super fucking rich” stuff that he’s been kicking his entire career although he does get a pretty nice diss towards Noel Gallagher for having the balls to say that only artists who play music with the racial purity of guitars should be allowed to play at the hallowed Glastonbury Festival in England and insinuate that rap music is a low disgusting form of music that only the heathens and various unwashed desirables of the world would enjoy. I did enjoy those lines because fuck that John Lennon-wannabe anyway. (“Wonderwall” is my shit, though. You should hear the version that I do at karaoke. “Earth-shattering” is the phrase I believe that my friends used.)


For all the flack and accusations of shameless promotion whoring that Nas catches when he names his album something like “Hip Hop Is Dead” or “Nigger”, Jay-Z seems to escape these criticisms when he does something remarkably similar. Ever since the release of “The Blueprint”, Jay-Z has been manufacturing pre-packaged hype for each of his new albums despite the relative lack of follow-through on each of the promise of the album. “The Black Album” was infamously billed to be Jay-Z’s swan song and accordingly, it drew lots of press attention and sales in response. It may, in fact, be on public level Jay-Z’s most popular album. (I know a lot of non-rap fans who own that album.) “Kingdom Come” traded on the prestige of Jay-Z returning to rap and it featured one of the most shamelessly bald commercial marketing campaigns ever in order to sell the album. (I don’t mean to keep harping on it but as we all know it turned out to suck worse than death but I digress…) Shockingly, “American Gangster” may, in fact, be the most egregious of Jay-Z’s schilling. The album traded on the success and notoriety of the Ridley Scott's film of the same name as it claimed to be a tribute album to the movie despite, the fact, it literally had nothing to do with Frank Lucas aside from using a couple of out-of-context lines from the film used as introductions to the track and naming one of the tracks “Blue Magic”. Jay-Z has done a great job as a shameless promotion whore, himself.

Now Jay-Z is trading on the notoriety and acclaim of one of his own classic album as well as this year’s other similarly named mega-album, Tha Carter 3, in hopes of piquing the interest of the fickle public and the sycophantic mainstream music media. This strikes me as particularly lame. I’m guessing the name of the album was decided upon after there was a corporate board meeting held between Jay-Z, L.A. Reid, the Illuminati, and various members of the Global Hipster Conspiracy in Def Jam’s offices. It's pretty safe to say, they had a long conversation about what’s the best way to market another thoroughly mediocre legacy ruining album by Mr. Carter. My sources say it was down to "the Blueprint 3", a tribute album to Pixar’s Wall-E and a Best of Both World’s duet album with Beyonce entitled “Bonnie & Clyde ’08 (I’m Secretly On The DL With That Dude From The Chiefs).” Ultimately, it was Tom Breihan who cast the winning vote for "Blueprint 3".


Personally, I’ve got to wonder why they’ve got to go back to the well one more time with the Blueprint name in the hopes of getting us rap dorks excited on the prospects that Jay-Z maybe will start rapping like he gives a damn, anymore. They could've have just called it Vol.4 and everybody would have gone home happy. I’d personally be down for another late 90’s-esque album filled with monster pop-rap odes to money, cash and hoes. I’d even be down for that supposed idea of trotting out Timbaland and allowing him to produce the whole thing. That’s the Jay-Z I fell in love with. As long as they forget to return to Pharell’s calls for scheduling studio time, I’m all good. Seriously, Jay-Z, you make terrible music with Pharell. He sucks. Let it go.




81 comments:

ENIG MUE said...

Post that Biggaveli Tv 4

DocZeus said...

I generally try to keep my blog Dipset free, thank you very much.

tray said...

I think Blueprint 2 has a lot of good songs. Hovi Baby, Poppin Tags, Watcher 2, Blueprint 2, Meet The Parents, Excuse Me Miss, All Around The World, Some People Hate, Some How Some Way, U Don't Know (Remix), The Bounce... but yeah, please no Blueprint 3. At this point though, I don't even give his new shit a listen anymore, so besides the damage he's doing to his legacy, I don't really mind if he puts out more garbage records.

Passion of the Weiss said...

Damnit Zeus, just as I'm writing the same fucking thing for tomorrow's blog, I turn here and see this. What a waste of time blogs are. Nice work. This song is awful.

bfnh. said...

a special blend of hate you've got here. goin' to the abortion well (twice, even) is a bit much, though.

my biggest problem w/jay is the utter lack of originality at this point.

using the word "bloke" and throwing a jab at a completely irrelevant character like gallagher is fuckin' corny. by the time that this album releases that story will be so old it'll only serve to make hov look petty and spiteful. bitchlike, even. that's the kinda of thing that works in a freestyle, released a week after, not as an actual bar in some shit i'm gonny purchase at best buy 6 months from now.

"when your friends is, chris and gwyneth..." is the line where jay died to me. the husk that remains should be despised by all.

DocZeus said...

"Damnit Zeus, just as I'm writing the same fucking thing for tomorrow's blog, I turn here and see this. What a waste of time blogs are. Nice work. This song is awful."

The moral of the story is don't get caught sleepin'. I ignored a stack of papers at work today to write this and I don't regret a moment of it.

Jesus Shuttlesworth said...

as someone who's never been a big jay fan, a volume 4 would be beautiful. at least with those albums he could say he's going back to his ignorant youth. his "mature rap" shtick is lame.

this song is terrible. the rap media needs to let this man just grow old and fade away. i'm tired of this old asshole.

Kai said...

2 things:
1. dope ass article, well written, ridiculously funny. "Coldplayian fuckery", I love it.

2. Change your font. Its difficult to read, and when you are publishing material for consumption by others, you dont want people to struggle through it because the font is annoying to read through.

Keep doing it, I'll be passing this around, and we'll see if we are right about him and this album when it drops.

Christopher said...

Cosign kai about your layout. its been killing me since you changed it to your Dr. Katz steez.

Awesome and pretty flawlessly funny post. I've been waiting on you and Brandon to jump back so I could have some shit to read.

Tray- Uh...there's like one good song on Blueprint 2. "Excuse Me Miss". All the rest fall into the pile I call "The 4 Jay-Z albums which are fucking awful that we don't ever discuss".

Trey Stone said...

not that i disagree with you about Jay's marketing tactics, but i guess i don't read anything really negative into them. the guy wants to sell records, and if they're good records (no Kingdom Come) then i don't really mind. the difference with Nas is that HHID and Nigger are intentionally provocative album titles. not that i have a problem with those either, i like the former and think he makes a lot of sense on the latter.

i'm not gonna go over why you're crazy for saying BP2 is on a Nas level of boredom. that's some of the best, most cinematic production dude's ever got and your rationale here is clearly bitter sample-centric puritic...ism. and as for The Neptunes, "Give It 2 Me," "Excuse Me Miss," "Fuck All Nite" (yep,) "A Ballad for the Fallen Soldier" and "I Know" would all beg to differ

DocZeus said...

Mr. Stone -

"Give It 2 Me" is the ONLY Neptunes/Jay-Z related song that is worth a damn. Believe dat. Don't get me started on how awful "Excuse Me Miss" as a song, as a beat, and as a motherfucking crew.

Kai said...

Re: BP2
there are several legitimately good songs on there, just not enough for a whole album. INfact some of those songs would have sounded perfectly at home on BP1.

All around the world
Some how Some way
Excuse me miss
Guns and Roses
Fuck All night
Nigga Please
You don't Know (remix)

BP2's biggest flaw was diluting the 6 (or 8 if you count 2 of the bonus joints "show em how to do this" + "Bitches and sisters") good songs, with about 19 additional mediocre to wack songs. Thats 6-8 records that are undeniable to solid, they mainly have dope beats & dope rhymes, if you dont like most of these records there's something wrong with you. Other joints on the album fail on the production and conceptually. But mainly, there are a lotta really bad beats on this album.

Yes, about 75% of this sounds like Nas executive produced it. And on the song where Jay tries unconvincingly to show that he was not actually ethered by Nas...lets just say its normally a bad look when you are asking the engineer to bring in the 'flutes' and you borrow your the punchline of your hook from Mike Meyers. Oh yeah, and however bad it is to do that normally, its even worse when you are doing that in response to what is perhaps the illest dis record since the bridge is over. When you hear that record its hard to believe the same guy made takeover. If Jay wasn't such a towering figure in the game, BP2 would have really been the start of his ending.

Joey said...

Tell 'em why you mad, son! Damn, that was hard. Nice work, Zeus.

tray said...

I don't want to start a stan war, but, while Blueprint 2 obviously isn't seeing Ether as a diss record, Jay did have a valid point when he asked,

Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?

And after the joke that was Untitled, I think the rap version of TD Jakes is a pretty fair description of Nas.

Kai said...

A stan war is impossible, I'm not a Jay-Z or Nas stan. I am a fan of both, who sees the contradictions and weaknesses in them both.

Well, the questions Jay posed in that quote don't prove anything. Each of those songs has a context, and none are necessarily contradictory. If a man calls his lady a bitch during sex, cause she likes it, thats obviously not the same thing as calling her a bitch in the car driving to work. Context is important. Jay didn't have a point, imho.

But Nas is terribly contradictory. He is "Huey P. with Louis V." He is a "hero" anti-establishment revolutionary who wants you to vote for Obama over a really bad beat. Nas is confused because he isn't educated, and grabs a little piece of all of the shit he hears and throws it all together to make his worldview.

ON the other hand Jay-Z thinks he's Che Guevara with bling on.

In the end, Jay is a capitalist, he is a materialist, and if nothing else, it makes him clear about his objectives. Thats why he has been more successful imposing his vision on hip hop.

DocZeus said...

Ah man, stan wars are awesome!

tray said...

The Che Guevara stuff is ridiculous (there's a reason he had his ass handed to him on Renegade, the rebel image isn't one Jay really gets or has ever sought to cultivate), but to Jay's credit, he didn't really make those kinds of outlandish claims too often, and very rarely tried to rap about stuff he knew nothing about. Nas, on the other hand, really seems to think he's some kind of serious radical voice.

DocZeus said...

On the layout-

I've noticed it's harder to read on Windows than it is on a Mac and since I write on a Mac I don't notice. Dutily noted.

Renato Pagnani said...

I agree fully with you and Weiss about the prospects of The Blueprint 3.

And this new font is much, much better.

Kai said...

Tray, I agree, Jay mostly stays in his lane. I can appreciate an MC that mainly knows his limitations. However, that may begin to be his undoing, we will see how many new ways he can conjure that say "look I'm rich like the white people and I'm from the projects".

I think Nas' main problem is he isn't quite who he wants to be or who he thinks he is. Nas your not a hero for talking about FOx and going to a protest. You been an artist like 16 years and haven't ever protested anything. It makes him seem like an oppurtunist, and his political understanding appears shallow. Its a shame too, because with his gift for MCing, he'd have inspired alot of people to become politically active.

DocZeus, thanks for that font change its much easier to read now.

tray said...

that may begin to be his undoing, we will see how many new ways he can conjure that say "look I'm rich like the white people and I'm from the projects".

I mean, he's finished as a decent rapper no matter what he chooses to rap about at this point. His flow and delivery left him. But he did say the same thing very effectively for nearly a decade, and I don't think that's a mark against him, any more than it's a mark against Rakim or Kane that they mostly stuck to bragging about how great rappers they were. Nas is capable of doing really insightful social commentary so long as he sticks to the ground level of what he saw growing up in Queensbridge, but when he starts talking about more macro political stuff, he just sounds like a really confused, ignorant guy. And it's also really annoying that he seems to think that the mere fact that he's black and rich, relatively speaking, gives him some kind of rebel cred - see these vapid bars from "We're Not Alone":

Seems the closer we get to the truth
State troopers or FEDs come out to silence you
My house in Malibu probably tapped
Because I'm living next door to Demi Moore
Plus, I'm black
Plus, I want vengeance for the poor

Trey Stone said...

Doc, you've clearly listened to too much Wu-Tang and aren't in touch enough with your feminine side. otherwise you'd recognize "Excuse Me Miss's" poetic brilliance

on a more serious note though, it seems to me like you're kinda trying to have your cake and eat it too with the whole Jay-Z:Nas thing with BP2, slagging the album for having Nas-like snoozers (which is a biiiiig stretch, maybe try listening to it again? seriously) when you dissed people who dislike most Nas albums for their wack beats as having superficial tastes. i'd suspect that your response to this is that Nas is a poetic genius while Jay-Z's an arrogant dick. but i'd hope most people who've graduated college are past any earlier exaggerated "Nas is a revolutionary genius" phase. Jay's more articulate and sharper than him in any case.

i swear Vol. 3 and BP2 are the Hov albums that deserve rehabilitation, not wack-ass Vol. 1. possible post on this forthcoming

Anonymous said...

"but i'd hope most people who've graduated college are past any earlier exaggerated "Nas is a revolutionary genius" phase. Jay's more articulate and sharper than him in any case."

This is pretty telling (and condescending). I feel that people who tend to attack Nas' intellect are usually missing the point. Also, other than a great business saavy, what makes Jay "more articulate and sharper than him in any case?"

For as many instances where Nas is derided on the net for a few of his lines, one could throw up some Jay lines. Jay's the same person that implied that he'll stop using foul language when racism ceases to exist. That's pretty ridiculous. They BOTH think they're smarter than they really are, if we want to be broke dicks about it.

Also, BP2 was a horrible album, and this "Jockin' Jay-Z" song is pretty mediocre.

JustChad

Trey Stone said...

it's not that i think Nas is dumb or anything, in fact i think he's pretty smart. it's just that in my college experience some of the people who're huge fans of his seem to think he's above criticism, and get an inflated sense of themselves as some kind of intellectuals because they're fans of his. outside of the new album i can't think of any overtly political Nas song that wasn't muddled in some way, and "These Are Our Heroes" in particular is some of his most bass-ackwards logic ever.

people get on Jay for the money talk, not that i don't see why for this song specifically, but he's able to express himself and his hustler to mogul story in a pretty clear, clever and compelling way. Nas is a little convoluted and forced with the concepts sometimes, though don't get me wrong, he can be brilliant.

also, both Nas and Jay (and a zillion other rappers) have used the same lame product of their environment/what about other entertainment excuse. not that the former isn't legit but obviously it can't just be used as a blanket rationalization of some rappers' irresponsible lyrics. i still think it's almost funny that Stoned Wayne has made the best argument since the whole post-Don Imus, Al Sharpton & co. vs. hip hop deal, while avoiding the BS rappers usually recycle about that type of stuff

Trey Stone said...

also, let's not lie like BP2 isn't better than Street's Disciple. i mean if we wanna talk bloated snoozers

Anonymous said...

Well, for me, I've found that it's just cursory fans of Nas who are quick to deem him a "genius" or whatever, the same as Common.

I think that Jay's hustler talk is great, but it seems that his best work was much earlier in his career. "Allure" was IMO the last great time he was able to show that, save for flashes like "Falling."

At this point, I think Nas (as well as most "political/socially conscious" rappers are at their best when they adhere to the barbershop school of thought: just let your ideas out unfiltered, to let the audience take from you what they want and build on it. Anything else is a recipe for failure (which I don't think Untitled was).

Of course, I agree with the product of environment argument you just put forth, although I cannot see BP2 being better than Streets Disciple. Was it a bloated snoozer? Yeah. But still, like many Nas albums when compared to Jay's, Nas makes up for in ambition what he may lack in cohesion or bombast. I thought the first disc was a good representation of his past, but the second disc is where he faltered, not deciding if he wanted it to be themed in family or what. The title track was one of the best songs of that year IMO though.

JustChad

tray said...

The title track... was that the one that originally sampled Road To The Riches by G Rap, but somehow he couldn't clear it so he substituted in a way worse beat? That was a great song.

Renato Pagnani said...

The Blueprint 2 is much, much better than Sleep's Disciple.

Kai said...

Tray it can't be a great song with a way worse beat. It had good lyrics, lets say that. In honor of this thread I listened to Street's Disciple in its entirety today. Its not a good album, the beats sound like his man from the 3rd floor in the projects did them. He has probably less good songs, beat-wise than Jay on BP2, but lyrically he is on point more often than Jay is.

But having heard both of their albums in a short space, the difference between them as artists is huge. Jay makes alot of party music. He is at his best when he is doing his braggadocio thing.

Nas tells stories, and describes situations. He tells alot about his personal life, getting married, his daughter, his friends, etc. He also creates fictional scenarios, and generally describes a slice of life for a certain section of black men and women. Its very difficult to compare the 2.

Nas is a way worse beat picker though, and ultimately that weighs heavily against him, even from me, someone who is lyric-centric when listening to hip hop. Too many of the beats are just brutal.

DocZeus said...

"The title track... was that the one that originally sampled Road To The Riches by G Rap, but somehow he couldn't clear it so he substituted in a way worse beat? That was a great song."

No, I think that's "Disciple" and that's on disc 1. The original is hot but yeah, the album version is weak. "Street's Disciple" was on disc 2 but I can't remember literally anything about it.

I think "Street's Disciple" is slightly underrated but it's definitely not one of Nas' best. That's an album that could've been saved if it had curbed about half the tracks as opposed to "BP2" which couldn't.

"BP 2.1" was wack as well.

Trey Stone said...

OK, so i want someone to name the great songs on Street's Disciple. enlighten me

Christopher said...

Trey-

"Nazareth Savage"
"Sekou Story"
"Bridging The Gap"
"Thief's Theme"

And that's about it.

Jesus Shuttlesworth said...

i would add "You Know My Style" to that list, but it's of little consequence, as "U Don't Know (Remix)" trumps all. a little M.O.P. makes any song better.

Anonymous said...

Doc is right. I was talking about the second song on Disc 2, with a sample of Pops saying, "From the day you was born....you had that gleam in ya eye..." If I was a boxer, I would come out to that shit.

JustChad

Renato Pagnani said...

“Sekou Story” only works in context of being the backstory of the god awful “Live Now.” The story Nas narrates on “Sekou Story” goes nowhere, has no action, and like most tracks on Street’s Disciple, suffers from poor production, albeit not as poor production as is found on the rest of the album. “Nazareth Savage” is pretty straight though, and “Thief’s Theme” is the last great Nas song, period (that and maybe “Streets of New York”).

tray said...

Yeah, I meant the original version of Disciple was a great song. When I heard that I thought Nas was back... then I heard the album and as we know, it's all snoozers mixed in with some gross talk about his urethra (which he so classily rhymes with 'Marvin Gaye coming out the speaker').

DocZeus said...

"then I heard the album and as we know, it's all snoozers mixed in with some gross talk about his urethra (which he so classily rhymes with 'Marvin Gaye coming out the speaker')."

I kind of like "Remember The Times." I'm not sure what that says about me as a human being.

Jesus Shuttlesworth said...

remember the times proves nas has a sense of humor. i love it.

tray said...

It's a good song. But very typical of his inability to talk about women without coming off like a perv. For me, Makings of A Perfect Bitch was over the line. I mean, I know it's a fantasy, but it's literally about kidnapping three women, vivisecting them ("holding the scalpel while cutting the flesh/heavy bleeding, so I need suction, it's such a mess"), and stitching them together into a stripper who can do your tax returns. Worse yet, one who treats Nas as her "daddy, her messiah, her god" because he "injected obedience and loyalty into her heart." It'd be pretty offensive coming from any rapper, but for a guy who talks about slavery in his songs and does (terrible) videos with mock lynchings in them, the sex slave talk is really appalling.

Trey Stone said...

completely agree with my long lost Internet brother on this one. i can't think of anytime Nas has talked about women that hasn't come off as dry or disgusting. not like i'm some prude who cringes everytime i hear a rapper use the word "bitch" or talk about sex. just that there's good and bad ways to do it

Jesus Shuttlesworth said...

fair point on "makings." but, what happened to all the love for "black girl lost?"

Anonymous said...

Eh, I wouldn't say that Nas doesn't know how to rap about women without sounding like a perv. Like J.S. said, there's "Black Girl Lost," and "Hey Nas," which features one of my favorite lines off that whole album about calling Large Pro and Akinelye if he wants BBQ.


JustChad

DocZeus said...

"remember the times proves nas has a sense of humor. i love it."

Plenty of songs prove Nas has a sense of humor... Do people not remember the awesome trainwreck debacle that is "Who Killed It?"

He raps an entire song as if he was James Cagney. It's a complete non sequitur coming from NaS.

Madman said...

I've only heard the double-discs that are objectively worth caring about and BP2 is pretty good. 5 good songs?? It only has 1 truly bad song (What They Gonna Do) & a handful of snoozers that are all on The Gift. Split 'em in 2 and The Curse is one of Jay's best. BP2 is definitely better than All Eyez on Me and Wu-Tang Forever though. Especially Wu-Tang Forever.

As far as the Blueprint 3 goes, I agree with whoever said a Vol. 4 would be right. Jockin' Jay-Z is aight, but it kinda sucks just because its supposed to be a catchy single and it sounds forced. Jay should really just retire from making albums and keep on dropping fire ass guest verses

Kai said...

If nothing else, madman has proven that he deserves his name. First he says he's heard all of the double discs worth caring about and omits, Big's Life after death, then he tells us the curse disc is one of Jay's best. Madman indeed.

The "getting married" song was dope ass song too. It was real, the beat was good, the rhymes were hot and introspective, and mature. Offical grown man music right there. A rarity in hip hop.

and also showed Bas' sense of humor

DocZeus said...

"BP2 is definitely better than All Eyez on Me and Wu-Tang Forever though. Especially Wu-Tang Forever."

Oh, hell naw! BP2 couldn't hold All Eyez On Me's dirty diseased jockstrap let alone Wu-Forever's.

Overall shittiness aside, BP2 is so damn boring. I still haven't ever gotten through it in one sitting.

Anonymous said...

Kai and Doc said it before I did.

And I don't even dig All Eyez On Me as much as everyone out. But c'mon now.

Doc, you should just make like a Nas/Jay post every month. They EASILY bring out the most comments it seems.


JustChad

Madman said...

"If nothing else, madman has proven that he deserves his name. First he says he's heard all of the double discs worth caring about and omits, Big's Life after death, then he tells us the curse disc is one of Jay's best. Madman indeed."

The reason I didnt mention Life After Death is because it's better than BP2. The same reason I didnt Streets Disciple & Diplomatic Immunity. The Curse is 9/10, behind Jays big 3 and American Gangster

"Oh, hell naw! BP2 couldn't hold All Eyez On Me's dirty diseased jockstrap let alone Wu-Forever's."

Nah. AEOM Disc 1 is fuckin' historiic, but Disc 2 is an abortion in the purest form of the word. Maybe 3 or 4 solid songs, but it really drags the value of it down.

I already know you're a Wu-head so I'd rather not get into this convo, but Forever just sucks. RZA's production is bland and the Wu only have 3 great rappers; Ghost, Meth, & ODB. And Ghost doesn't even fit in.

Trey Stone said...

can't say i'm a Dipset fan like Mr. madman here, but if any double album's boring it's AEOM. a few great songs and a lot of lyrically and sonically mind-numbing sub-G-funk bullshit. saying BP2 has shyte production and then praising that is silly.

while i like the good songs there a lot better than anything on Street's Disciple at least that album's an ambitious mess.

"Who Killed It?" is pretty funny, but my point stands about him and the lay-dayz

DocZeus said...

"Nah. AEOM Disc 1 is fuckin' historiic, but Disc 2 is an abortion in the purest form of the word. Maybe 3 or 4 solid songs, but it really drags the value of it down."

The first five songs on Disc 2 are probably the five best songs on the entire album but yeah...then it's seriously falls off.

"I already know you're a Wu-head so I'd rather not get into this convo, but Forever just sucks. RZA's production is bland and the Wu only have 3 great rappers; Ghost, Meth, & ODB. And Ghost doesn't even fit in."

What?! WHAT?!? WHAAAAT?!!?! Only three great rappers in the entire of the Wu? ONLY?! I'll pretend I just did not read that.

"Doc, you should just make like a Nas/Jay post every month. They EASILY bring out the most comments it seems."

ALL of my posts inevitably turn into a Jay-Z/Nas argument in the comment section! It's uncanny. If either one of them is even tentatively mentioned, it turns into a stan war. And ironically, the next post I'm working on (if I don't do a GZA or Game review first. Both records are nails btw.) will probably be a Nas/Jay post...again. Although only by necessity since the topic I'm writing kind of necessitates their mention.

Madman said...

"The first five songs on Disc 2 are probably the five best songs on the entire album but yeah...then it's seriously falls off."

WHAT??? Disc 1 is Pac's best work hands down. Too many bangers. Ambitionz of a Ridah, All Bout U, How Do U Want It, 2 of Amerikaz, Life Goes On, Hearts of Men, California Love, I Aint Mad At Cha. Seriously get it together.

"What?! WHAT?!? WHAAAAT?!!?! Only three great rappers in the entire of the Wu? ONLY?! I'll pretend I just did not read that."

Pretending won't make it any less true. Ghostface Killah. Method Man. Old Dirty Bastard. END

Kai said...

Um, I know when people die, they gain 30 pounds, or at least thats what Biggie told me, but I didn't kow that dying made you a great rapper. ODB is a great rapper?!?!?! Madman. Madman. Madman. IN the words of some roc-a-fella weed carrier:

"You is wilin"

Madman said...

ODB's delivery and voice is just top-notch. He's always a joy to listen to on Wu tracks. I prolly wouldn't enjoy a ODB album, but he was unique. Besides the 3 I listed, everybody else in the Wu all sound the same. Pretty good lyrics, but borrrring flow and voice

DocZeus said...

"Pretending won't make it any less true. Ghostface Killah. Method Man. Old Dirty Bastard. END"

Blasphemy of the highest order. I won't dignify this with a response.

Madman said...

I win

DocZeus said...

"I win"

Absolutely not.

Madman said...

Dude it's clear that I won. Just take it like a man.

DocZeus said...

Under no circumstances did you win a dispute where the crux of the argument is that GZA, Deck and Raekwon are not great rappers. I chose to not participate because it would like arguing with somebody who believes the color of the sky is green. I do not argue with people who are clinically insane.

DocZeus said...

On a complete side note, I've been drinking a little before I go out and my iTunes has been absolutely spot on with it's choices since I set it on random. Not a wack song yet played. It makes me almost not want to leave my apartment.

DocZeus said...

Fuck, I had no idea I had a Sexyback Remix featuring the Clipse on my computer. This is effin' awesome.

Trey Stone said...

isn't it weird how all JT's hip-hop collaborations on his albums ("Like I Love You" and "Chop Me Up" too) have been with relatively hardcore rappers? i'm waiting for a new single with him with Jeez...oh wait he already dropped that shyte verse on Usher's "Love in This Club." nevermind

Berto said...

Once I stopped laughing, I actually thought "Who Killed It?" was a really fucking good song. The comments here have also reaffirmed my informal policy to postpone listening to double-albums indefinitely, as I have not listened to one yet (the only possible exception for this in the near future is Wu-Tang Forever).

And madman, you either have not listened to 36 Chambers, or you are truly a madman (har har).

Jesus Shuttlesworth said...

yea i'm with berto on "who killed it?" though i think the inspector gadget beat by will.i.am could have been much better, but that's always the story w/ nas.

"forever" is such beautiful music. great album.

Madman said...

"And madman, you either have not listened to 36 Chambers, or you are truly a madman (har har)."

I've heard 36 Chambers and its pretty good. 8/10. Its just another "good, but overrated" album that was apart of the East Coast Renaissance.

"Under no circumstances did you win a dispute where the crux of the argument is that GZA, Deck and Raekwon are not great rappers. I chose to not participate because it would like arguing with somebody who believes the color of the sky is green. I do not argue with people who are clinically insane."

That is hilarious. Not because of your opinion, but because of the stone-faced delivery I'm imagining.

*walks out listening to Soap Opera*

tray said...

Soap Opera isn't so good. Classic album though. I mean, I can see where some people might think that GZA, Deck, Rae, Masta Killa, etc. sound a little too much like each other, just as the first time I listened to 36 Chambers I thought all the songs were boring except for CREAM, just as the first time I heard Purple Haze I thought it was all a bunch of retarded gibberish, but all that shows is that you haven't given them enough of a chance. Once you do, you'll have all the words of their songs memorized like the rest of us.

Madman said...

"Soap Opera isn't so good. Classic album though. I mean, I can see where some people might think that GZA, Deck, Rae, Masta Killa, etc. sound a little too much like each other, just as the first time I listened to 36 Chambers I thought all the songs were boring except for CREAM, just as the first time I heard Purple Haze I thought it was all a bunch of retarded gibberish, but all that shows is that you haven't given them enough of a chance. Once you do, you'll have all the words of their songs memorized like the rest of us."

Their's only a handful of songs on 36 Chambers I really dont feel. I've listened to it a couple times and the filler posse tracks really drag it down. Purple Haze is just excellent

DocZeus said...

Soap Opera is the shittiest song on the shittiest album. I actually legitimately like "Killa Season" (which is a clusterfuck in it's own right albeit in a completely different way) more than I like Purple Haze. No lie.

tray said...

Yeah, Killa Season's underrated. I think its reviews were hurt by Breihan et al. jumping off of Cam's jock and onto Wayne's.

Madman said...

Come on Doc, you cant deny that Soap Opera is fuckin; great and it has one of the best wordplay things ever.

"Looking back on school, arts and crafts
Fucked half the staff, beat up half the class
I was like *Dr. Dre* though, I had to laugh
*Nigga Witta Attitude* meet me *Aftermath*

Killa Season is real underrated too. It has 3 or 4 weak songs

tray said...

That's good... not one of the best wordplay things EVER. Yeah, the second verse is good, but the first kinda sucks and the beat and chipmunk hook is really annoying. Second worst song on the album after Hey Lady. Well, maybe third after Take Em To Church.

DocZeus said...

"Come on Doc, you cant deny that Soap Opera is fuckin; great and it has one of the best wordplay things ever."

If the production wasn't candy soft bubblegum bullshit, maybe you might have a point.

DocZeus said...

"Second worst song on the album after Hey Lady. Well, maybe third after Take Em To Church."

Oh yeah, I forgot about "Hey Lady." THAT's the worst song.

Madman said...

Hey Lady, Girls, and probably Get Down are prolly the weakest songs and they're pretty damn good to me.

Anonymous said...

a.) lol @ your discussions always turning into 6 Degrees of separation from fierce jay-z vs nas debates. this is not a blogger's Kevin Bacon. I see you Mockin' Jay-Z , Mockin Jay-Z Yeeeah
b.) say wht you want about 'Hey Lady' - but the lines "Out mingalin', heard that I blingy-bling / But I run the circus like ring-a-ling / I'm the king of things, and your man he a homo like jing-a-ling (jing-a-ling)" never ceases to amuse me. Retard-o brilliance. c.)sorry to get back to the point, I'd normally not complain abt a jay-z album, and i do acknowledge that all of his "major" albums in his catalogue are event albums - the stellar debut, the emotional introspective turning point blueprint, and the retirement album. and ive got no problems w/ him continuing to record, but him continuing desperately to recapture a moment that has already passed - a moment where his hunger and skill was ahead or atleast right on top of hip hop's pulse- is disappointing. Now he sadly seems to be playing catch-up for relevancy. this coupled w/ that ridiculous Live Nation deal might mean he's gonna end up being hip hop's rolling stones. in a bad way.Rock the Bells 2010 - Dawn of the Dead. - jay (d)eff kay

Anonymous said...

also doc, no offense to your fact checkers, but according to my sources "Bonnie & Clyde ’08 (I’m Secretly On The DL With That Dude From The Chiefs).” is not an official ALBUM, its merely a Gangsta Grillz mixtape, you basssstids. If you are gonna make an album that questions his marriage and his heterosexuality, I'd assume you'd name it Reasonable Doubt 2. - jay (d)eff kay

Madman said...

"but after almost a year of half-assed guest appearances"

Where???

Also I noticed one too many C3 references in this post. I'm officially saying that you like that album.

Trey Stone said...

i think some of the chipmunk beats on Purple Haze like "Hey Lady" are so self-parodic (that a word?) that they work, but only about half the album is the weirdo goodness Pitchfork thinks it is. definitely better than all the other mostly garbage albums Dipset's put out though. whenever i see even people who don't like them go "but their beats are hot!" i think i'm going crazy or something. G-Unit and them have the worst production crews in rap. though it makes sense that they got a bunch of sub-Kanye stuff when their style is basically a dumb parody of Roc-A-Fella rap.

Trey Stone said...

oh and madman, even i'll tell you that Jay's guest appearances post-American Gangster have been blah besides Rick Ross's "Maybach Music" even though i dunno if there's been that many. maybe i'm just paying attention

Madman said...

The Maybach Music verse was cool, his Put On verse was nice, and he kinda killed Mr. Carter.

And Dipset definitely have some of the best production out here. Especially Cam

My reasons for deeming Purple Haze were alot different from others. It was really a music experience. The skits give it some sort of direction as its kinda like a trip through weirdo-land where gangsters get robbed by girl scouts and the mobsters wear pink and are schizophrenic. And when Cam is making sense, he's a monster

tray said...

So trey, which half isn't the weirdo goodness? Specifically. Because I feel you can make a strong case for everything but Soap Opera and Hey Lady - unless you take the "it's all gibberish to me" position, but clearly you don't.

Trey Stone said...

my preference has more to do with the beats, though i feel like those ones also have some of Cam's more focused weirdness. but i like the first half except for "More Wack-ass Juelz Santana," "Get Down" and "Leave Me Alone Pt. 2," and think things kinda slow down when "Bubble Music" hits with a few exceptions ("More Reasons," "Hey Lady," "Dip-Set Forever" and occasionally i play "Get 'Em Girls" for shits and giggles even though the different parts of the beat sound mismatched)

outside of Cam's first two Roc albums though and a handful of crew highlights, with some people it just seems like the praise for the Dips' supposedly "hot beats" comes from not having a big grasp on good mainstream rap. broadly speaking here, but still. i kinda feel the same way about the idea that The Game's two albums have such mindblowing production even though overall he gets better beats than the Dips